A jolly chitchat in the Apostolic Palace…
PHOTOS: ‘Bishop’ Athanasius Schneider in Audience with ‘Pope’ Francis
(image ©Vatican Media)
The daily news bulletin put out by the Holy See Press Office on Monday, Jan. 20, 2025, included a rather unexpected item: ‘Pope’ Francis (Jorge Bergoglio) had received in audience that morning the Most Rev. Athanasius Schneider, O.R.C., auxiliary bishop of the diocese of Maria Santissima in Astana, Kazakhstan.
This was a surprise insofar as Schneider has for years been one of Bergoglio’s most vocal critics.
Not much is known about the meeting. There has been no comment from the Vatican, but of course there are photographs (above and further down below, and a few more here), and there are a few words from Bishop Schneider himself to the National Catholic Register:
Bishop Athanasius Schneider said Pope Francis “showed great cordiality” toward him during a private audience on Monday and that they “spoke about some important themes on the life of the Church.”
In a short Jan. 21 statement sent to the Register, the auxiliary bishop of Astana, Kazakhstan, called on the faithful to “pray for Pope Francis that he might confirm the Church in the Faith.”
Bishop Schneider, who has often been critical of Pope Francis during his pontificate, disclosed that he had asked for the meeting.
(Edward Pentin, “Bishop Schneider Says Pope Francis Showed Him ‘Great Cordiality’ During Private Audience”, National Catholic Register, Jan. 21, 2025)
It seems that the last time Schneider had visited the Vatican was on Mar. 1, 2019, together with other bishops from Central Asia as part of their periodic ad limina visit. It was then that he asked Francis to publicly clarify the ‘God wills a diversity of religions’ heresy in the Abu Dhabi Document on Human Fraternity:
Let’s look at some of the more serious objections Schneider has raised against ‘Pope’ Bergoglio over the years.
On Dec. 5, 2016, ‘Bp.’ (why the quotes?) Schneider spoke at a conference in Rome about Christian marriage and the errors of Francis’ exhortation Amoris Laetitia (‘The Joy of Love’), which basically allows unrepentant adulterers access to the sacraments. On that occasion, Schneider accused Francis of promoting the “joy of adultery” by pretending to dispense people from having to observe the Sixth Commandment.
On Jan. 2, 2018, a “Profession of the Immutable Truths about Sacramental Marriage” was published in English, which had been signed by Schneider and a few other Novus Ordo bishops on Dec. 31, 2017. It was an indirect condemnation of certain errors associated with Amoris Laetitia.
On Jan. 31, 2018, an interview with Schneider was published at Life Site in which the auxiliary accused the ‘Pope’ of giving people permission to sin:
The auxiliary bishop of Astana Kazakhstan said that phrases such as “discernment,” “pastoral accompaniment,” and “change of paradigm,” while sounding “beautiful” amount to a concession to sin. He said it was similar to how Moses allowed the Israelites to sin by allowing divorce because of their “hardness of heart.”
“The suggestion is that now, after 2000 years, the Church has discovered the subjective aspect of the truth — that until now the Church has only been presenting the objective part of the truth, and now [is presenting] the subjective [part of the truth],” he said.
“But this language, the so-called ‘discovery of the subjective part of the truth’ is none other, when you translate this into common sense language — for every man who still has common sense — it ultimately means ‘to allow to sin’ – to give permission to sin, as Moses gave because of the hard-heartedness of the people,” he continued.
(Pete Baklinski, “Bishop Schneider: ‘Discernment’ now means to ‘allow to sin’”, Life Site, Jan. 31, 2018)
On Apr. 7, 2018, Schneider spoke at a symposium in Rome and again took a clear swipe at Francis when he said: “Given their ministry of truth, the Roman Pontiffs must continually be aware that they are not the owners of the cathedra [chair] of truth, but its servants and vicars.”
On Mar. 20, 2019, the Rorate Caeli blog published an article written by Athanasius Schneider entitled, “On the Question of a Heretical Pope.” The Kazakh auxiliary defended the idea of Francis being a true Pope, of course, but not without implying that Francis either was, or might be, a heretic. That’s a serious charge. (Fr. Anthony Cekada, RIP, refuted Schneider’s article here. See also our own refutation of Schneider’s subsequent arguments that Francis must be considered a true Pope.)
On June 10, 2019, Schneider joined four other Novus Ordo bishops, including ‘Cardinal’ Raymond Burke, in issuing a veiled rebuke against Francis by releasing a ‘Declaration of the Truths relating to some of the most common Errors in the Life of the Church of our Time’, along with an accompanying ‘Explanatory Note’.
On Sep. 24, 2019, ‘Cardinal’ Burke and ‘Bishop’ Schneider issued a 3-page text entitled, “A Clarification about the Meaning of Fidelity to the Supreme Pontiff.” In this write-up, the two Novus Ordo clerics maintain that their theological criticism of Francis constitutes genuine fidelity to the Roman Pontiff.
On Feb. 28, 2020, Schneider doubled down on his defense of Francis’ legitimacy, even if he be a heretic.
On Oct. 22, 2020, in an interview with Edward Pentin, Schneider condemned Francis’ approval of same-sex civil unions, saying: “Most Holy Father, for the sake of the salvation of your own immortal soul, for the sake of the souls of all those persons who through your approval of same-sex unions are by their sexual acts grievously offending God and exposing their souls to the danger to be eternally lost, convert, retract your approval and proclaim with all your predecessors the unchangeable teaching of the Church.”
On July 23, 2021, after Francis had issued the motu proprio letter Traditionis Custodes severely curtailing the permitted use of the Traditional Latin Mass, Athanasius Schneider gave an interview in which he accused Francis of having issued a document with a “disparaging tone” that exhibited “a judgmental and unwelcoming spirit” with regard to liturgical traditionalists. He also accused the ‘Pope’ of being unjust: “The Motu Proprio and accompanying letter commit an injustice against all Catholics who adhere to the traditional liturgical form, by accusing them of being divisive and of rejecting the Second Vatican Council.”
On Sep. 24, 2022, after Francis had released the ‘Apostolic Letter’ Desiderio Desideravi in late June of that year, Schneider joined three other Novus Ordo bishops — René Gracida, Joseph Strickland, and Robert Mutsaerts — in accusing Francis of heresy.
On June 8, 2023, in an interview with Diane Montagna, Schneider criticized “new norms that grant equal voting rights to bishops and laity at the October 2023 Ordinary General Assembly of the Synod of Bishops in Rome, saying they are a ‘radical novelty’ that ‘undermine the divine constitution of the Church, conforming it more to a Protestant or even secular model’.” He issued an appeal to ‘Pope’ Francis to rescind them. Since Francis failed to heed the appeal, however, by default Schneider’s accusation of “undermin[ing] the divine constitution of the Church” now also applies to Bergoglio.
On June 29, 2023, Schneider took it upon himself to accuse Francis of an abuse of power for having suppressed the Traditional Latin Mass, and he declared disobedience against Traditionis Custodes to be legitimate. (Note well: An auxiliary bishop from a diocese in Kazakhstan presumed to declare overruled the universal liturgical legislation of the Supreme Pontiff. Funny that.)
On Sep. 19, 2023, Sophia Institute Press published the book Credo: Compendium of the Catholic Faith. It was written by Athanasius Schneider and is basically a counter-catechism refuting what the errors of ‘Pope’ Francis and the entire conciliar and post-conciliar magisterium. Now that is a bold move against the ‘Pope’! Not surprisingly, progressives take issue with Schneider’s parallel catechism, but actually some conservatives and middle-of-the-roaders do too.
On Sep. 29, 2023, Schneider published an explosive “Prayer for the 2023 ‘Synod on Synodality'”. In it, he deplored “doctrinal confusion, moral abomination, and liturgical abuse” and “sins of sacrilege and apostasy within the Church”. He also spoke of “Churchmen who have lost the true Faith and become promoters of a worldly globalist agenda, are intent on changing [God’s] truths and Commandments, the Divine Constitution of the Church, and the Apostolic tradition” — without, however, identifying Francis as being one of those churchmen; yet he fits the description to a tee.
On Sep. 30, 2024, Schneider published a “Profession of Faith in Jesus Christ and His Church as the Only Path to God and to Eternal Salvation” in response to Bergoglio’s scandalous apostasy in Singapore, where he had told an interreligious audience that the different religions are just so many languages to express God, so many paths to arrive at God:
- Francis Tells Interreligious Youths: All Religions Lead to God!
- Only ONE Religion Leads to God: Refuting Francis’ Apostasy in Singapore
- Bergoglio Doubles Down: ‘The Diversity of Our Religious Identities is a Gift from God’
There are a number of other examples of Schneider’s interventions we could give, but these should suffice.
Clearly, Schneider’s criticisms of Francis and his accusations against him concern very serious matters that impact the salvation of innumerable souls. According to the Kazakh auxiliary, Francis causes massive loss of faith, confusion, and scandal. He unleashes sacrilege, forbids traditional worship, sells out to globalism, and by his actions supports the sodomite and abortion agendas (even while occasionally opposing them verbally). Moreover, he ‘permits’ sin and legitimizes adultery, spreads heresy and apostasy, undermines the Church’s God-given constitution, works to overturn Apostolic Tradition, and declares that all religions are willed by God and lead to Him. The situation is so dire that Schneider moves to publish his own catechism to correct the doctrinal and moral aberrations of recent years.
In light of all the information above, how would one expect Schneider to act towards Francis once he gets an audience with him?
Here is what it looked like this past Monday, when Francis granted the request:
(image ©Vatican Media)
(image ©Vatican Media)
(image ©Vatican Media)
(image ©Vatican Media)
What do these photos of the Schneider-Francis encounter suggest? Granted, we do not know what was said or done during their actual conversation. We only have the bishop’s own sparse comments and the photos made available by the Vatican (here are a few more).
But the question imposes itself: Why is ‘Bp.’ Schneider so chummy with the man who he believes habitually does untold damage to countless souls, and has done so for many years?
Francis doesn’t look too displeased either to be meeting with his fiercest critic. If we look at how Bergoglio has dealt with other harsh opponents of his, such as the Most Rev. Joseph Strickland of Tyler, United States, that is at least suspicious.
In fact, to our knowledge, Francis has never so much as criticized Schneider. The only mildly ‘disciplinary’ move Francis has ever taken against the globe-trotting Schneider is gently remind him to please heed the canonical requirement of not spending more than one month’s time per year outside of his diocese. That’s it.
The fact that Francis consistently puts up with Schneider’s behavior without even so much as raising a single objection and then receives him cordially for what looks like a pretty jolly encounter, could indicate that he is quite content with how the Astana auxiliary exercises his ministry.
To be clear: We are not accusing Schneider of definitely being controlled opposition, since we don’t know that. However, it would be very imprudent not to consider it a realistic possibility, keeping in mind that the good manners and external piety displayed by Schneider are no guarantee of either orthodoxy or personal holiness. Indeed, in order to deceive the good, even “Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light” (2 Cor 11:14). The devil knows he must deceive those who sincerely mean to be good and holy, not those who are content to be evil — those are already his. (See also Fr. Frederick Faber’s warning concerning the deceitfulness of the Antichrist.)
In light of Our Blessed Lord’s counsel that “by their fruits you shall know them” (Mt 7:20), we must point out that Schneider’s work has several objective effects: (a) It makes people doubt or deny the Catholic teaching on the Papacy; (b) it makes people refuse submission to a man they acknowledge as the Vicar of Christ; and (c) it nevertheless keeps people attached to the Vatican II Church through their stubborn recognition of a public apostate as Pope. Despite all that, somehow Schneider has managed to be revered by recognize-and-resist trads as a kind of ultra-orthodox demigod.
At the very least, one must be allowed to raise the question: What is going on here?
We might add that unlike other Novus Ordo bishops (such as Jan-Paweł Lenga and René Gracida but not Joseph Strickland), ‘Bp.’ Schneider has never questioned Francis’ legitimacy as Pope but has always defended it vehemently. Perhaps that is why Francis is so relaxed about the man. He knows that, despite Schneider’s vehement criticism, as long as the illusion is upheld of him being the Pope, the continued success of his program of apostasy is assured; for it is only under the supposition that he is in fact the Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church that he has any power to do so much damage to souls in the first place.
Image source: Vatican Media/Osservatore Romano (all images cropped)
Licenses: rights-managed
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