To avoid confrontation over Dubia?
No Culture of Encounter: Francis apparently won’t hold Pre-Consistory Meeting with “Cardinals” again
As we learned in the last few months and especially in the past 2 days, although he constantly preaches about “dialogue”, “open doors”, and a “culture of encounter” Christians must supposedly practice, when it comes to four of his own “cardinals” humbly seeking to dialogue with him about their questions concerning the exhortation Amoris Laetitia, all of a sudden the leader of the Vatican II Sect isn’t all that into encounter anymore.
On June 19, it was revealed that Francis has been ignoring the request of “Cardinals” Caffarra, Brandmuller, Meisner, and Burke for a joint audience to resolve apparent contradictions between Francis’ exhortation Amoris Laetitia and the timeless Catholic teaching and practice regarding adultery, the state of grace, and reception of the sacraments. The request was made on April 25 and hand-delivered to the “Pope” on May 6. Although private audiences have been granted to people like Leonardo di Caprio, Hebe de Bonafini, and plenty of Jewish rabbis, somehow Francis just can’t manage to squeeze these four red-hatted prelates into his busy schedule.
Back in May, Francis announced a consistory to create new “cardinals” for June 28. Typically, such consistories are preceded by one or two days of non-public meetings with most of the members of the college of “cardinals” to discuss current affairs. They provide plenty of opportunity for an “encounter” to take place — for example, the kind where four of the red hats could insist that the “Pope” finally put an end to the controversy about Amoris Laetitia.
Well, guess what: The Vatican’s Office of Liturgical Celebrations has just released the schedule for the consistory, and that traditional pre-consistory meeting isn’t on it.
As Vatican journalist Edward Pentin reports:
For the second time in a row, it appears Pope Francis won’t be convening a meeting of cardinals ahead of next Wednesday’s consistory for the creation of five new red hats.
Ahead of his earlier consistories, in February 2014 and February 2015, Francis held such meetings. They took place in the Synod Hall, lasted two full days, and were an opportunity for the Pope to hear about issues and concerns from around the world, as well as update the cardinals on Vatican-related issues and those of the universal Church.
For a pope to skip holding a pre-consistory meeting is rare. Benedict dropped such a gathering ahead of his last cardinal-making consistory in November 2012, during which he created six new cardinals, but he held them for his other four.
The Holy See Press Office has not responded to questions about whether the meeting would be going ahead, but sources say he may meet some cardinals individually.
At the previous consistory last November, the Pope is thought to have preferred to avoid a confrontation with the four dubia cardinals who were allegedly planning to resubmit the dubia at the meeting, or at least bring up the topic.
Aware that the cardinals had written again a couple of months ago requesting an audience, and having not responded, the Pope may have decided again to avoid any encounter, although as with Benedict in 2012, it may have been due to the small number of new cardinals.
(Edward Pentin, “Pope to Skip Holding Pre-Consistory Meeting With Cardinals?”, National Catholic Register, June 21, 2017)
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see what’s going on here. Francis is running like a chicken from having to respond to the dubia presented to him, which put him in a corner: If he answers them in accordance with the true Catholic Magisterium, then Amoris Laetitia serves no purpose except to confuse and deny that teaching — his goose would be cooked. On the other hand, if he wants to vindicate and uphold the novelties taught in Amoris Laetitia, then he must directly contradict the true Catholic magisterial teaching — and again his goose would be cooked. So, it’s a no-win situation for him. He can only lose.
It is absolutely clear that Francis desires the confusion, the division, and the sacrilege that is the result of the ambiguities of Amoris Laetitia. That’s why he wrote the document the way he did in the first place.
We would like to encourage everyone reading this post to listen to our latest podcast, a mere eleven minutes in length, which addresses Francis’ refusal to grant an audience to the four “dubia cardinals”. You won’t regret listening:
The “operation of error” (2 Thess 2:10) in the Vatican is advancing under Francis like never before: “For such false apostles are deceitful workmen, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ” (2 Cor 11:14).
So now what, you ask? Here’s what. And pray unceasingly that God will finally restore Holy Mother Church and bring to an end that abominable Novus Ordo Sect, which we have all deserved on account of our sins.
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If I see that word “dialogue” one more time……
You remind me of Bishop Sanborn when he says: “If I here that word discernment one more time…“
We need to experience an encounter with a dialogue about the dignity of the nuanced human person
Titus 3:10: “A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid”.
Admonition #1 could be considered the dubia letter, and Admonition #2, the letter requesting a private audience. What’s left now is: avoid.
Except you cannot avoid the Pope (which they believe him to be). In fact, you are not permitted to. That’s another way to know that there is no such thing as a heretical Pope. It’s an absurdity. You would have to be in communion with him and avoid him at the same time.
Monsignor Bux: We Are in a Full Crisis of Faith
Theologian and former consulter to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith calls on the Pope to make a declaration of faith, warning that unless the Pope safeguards doctrine, he cannot impose discipline.
“For many Catholics, it is incredible that the Pope is asking bishops to dialogue with those who think differently [i.e. non-Catholic Christians], but does not want first to face the cardinals who are his chief advisors,” Msgr. Bux says.
“If the Pope does not safeguard doctrine,” he adds, “he cannot impose discipline.”
the fanatic of dialogue refuses to dialogue with the Cardinals of the dubia! Talk about contradiction.
Maybe they should have requested an encounter to caress PF instead???
I hate that phrase. It grated on my nerves back when the the Great Apostate JPII would use it.
Oh and the likes of went and these fake bishops can’t stop talking about it, I heard an interview with Gomez in la and he said we must let in all who want to come her, because, yes, that’s right, the dignity blah blah.
He must have used it 12 times in the interview
is that even a word? lol
What does it really mean, I wonder?
Man. Man for man. Man is the center. Dignity comes from man. Man. Man . Man. God is outside of this system because our actions flow from man, and his dignity, rather than from god. Notice too that it ignores origional sin.
I would say man has lost his dignity and it is only through his church that he regains it!
I loathed hearing “the dignity of the human person” constantly growing up and I would say you are correct.
It’s such snobby philosophy. It pretends to be so sophisticated, I think jpii was a radical. It draws us away from gods dignity. What about gods dignity, now it’s used as a battering ram for every man centers project like migration. Screw the dignity of man. Humph.
Who cares? The orthodox conciliar position is still heretical. Christ said “whoever marries another is in adultery.” JP2 opened this can of worms with the modernist canard of “living as brother and sister.” Both AL and the dubia brothers position are not traditional Catholic teaching. Just as a side note, if a man left his sacramental marriage and “married” his boyfriend, would they have to live as brother and brother?
As for living as brother and sister, that is the requirement if the adulterous couple have children under their care of which they are both the parents. That is the traditional Catholic requirement.
I thought that was a JP2 novelty. I never heard that it was the traditional requirement prior to V2. Was it addressed in any papal documents?
Oh, I don’t think that is something that would have been address in a papal document. That is the sort of thing you find in moral theology books approved by the Church.
It is, of course, a requirement that those who are in an adulterious union cease adulterous activity and separate. However, if they have children together, they cannot separate because the children need their parents. So that means they have to stay together but must live as brother and sister.
But did that allow the adulterous couple to receive communion too?
As far as I know, yes — at least privately, so no scandal is given. That is because they are not actually living in sin, if they are living celibately.