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A new “New Mass”?

Vatican reportedly working on “Ecumenical Rite of Mass” for joint Worship with Protestants

What difference, at this point, would it make?

The times we live in are such that it is increasingly difficult to distinguish fact from fiction, truth from satire. A few days ago a rumor began to spread on the internet to the effect that the Vatican is working on drafting a new, ecumenical rite of “Mass”, one that can be attended by “Catholics” (i.e. Novus Ordos), Anglicans, and other Protestants, and that can also be concelebrated by “clergy” from these three groups. In other words, it would be a lowest-common denominator worship service that presents no doctrinal obstacle to Novus Ordos, Anglicans, or other Protestants (the Eastern Orthodox are conspicuously absent from this project).

This wouldn’t have to be terribly different from what the Vatican II Sect uses now (the 1969 Novus Ordo Missae or “New Mass” of “Pope” Paul VI). After all, the Novus Ordo “Mass” already fulfils these requirements in large part. As Cardinals Alfredo Ottaviani and Antonio Bacci, along with other Roman theologians, stated in their open letter to Paul VI:

…[T]he Novus Ordo Missae — considering the new elements widely susceptible to widely different interpretations which are implied or taken for granted — represents, both as a whole and in its details, a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as it was formulated in Session 22 of the Council of Trent.

(Alfredo Ottaviani et al., Brief Critical Study of the New Order of Mass, Sep. 25, 1969)

But not only high-ranking Vatican prelates noticed the Protestantism of the New Mass. Even more importantly, the common folk in the pew did, too.

In any case, when we heard rumors that “Pope” Francis was looking to create another, even more “ecumenical” liturgical rite, we were skeptical at first and held off on reporting on it until we could get some sort of confirmation.

At this point, the matter has been reported by mainstream Vaticanist Marco Tosatti, albeit as a rumor. As the journalist himself says, however, “[M]y sources are usually good”, and he surely has no interest in hurting his own credibility.

Tosatti’s piece appeared on Mar. 1, 2017, and can be read in the original Italian here. An English translation of this article is provided here:

Ecumenical Mass, a work in progress? The consecration makes the Protestants uncomfortable. The ploy of silence…

[by] Marco Tosatti

These are only rumors, so we should only take them with a grain or even two or three of salt. But the mere fact that these allegations are circulating is a signal; and my sources are usually good.

We will write everything in the conditional. A mixed commission of Catholics, Lutherans, and Anglicans, bound to secrecy, is working on implementing a kind of rite of mass that can be attended by people from all three [of these] Christian denominations. There is no mention of the Orthodox. There is no written document yet, it’s all by verbal [i.e. oral] communication.

The hypothesis regards a first part with a “liturgy of the word”, which does not pose any problem; after the confession of sins, asking God for forgiveness, and reciting the Gloria, there would be the readings and the Gospel.

The commission is allegedly studying the problem of the Creed. Protestant churches prefer to pray the Apostles’ Creed, although they do recognize the Nicene Creed. The Catholic Church alternates between them. So not even this point should be a major problem.

Even the presentation of the gifts, although it must be studied with care, does not appear to present a major obstacle to the project.

The central issue is that of the Eucharist. The Catholic understanding of the Eucharist is profoundly different from that of the Lutherans or of other Protestant denominations. And of course at this crucial moment, when for Catholics (but not for Protestants) transubstantiation takes place, the liturgy cannot be different for the various celebrants.

But how can a common liturgy be celebrated that clearly differs in the wording right at the most important point of the event?

One of the proposed possible solutions would be silence. It would mean that after the Sanctus, at the moment in which normally during the Mass the priest would say the words: “Father, you are holy indeed…” the different celebrants would keep silent, everyone mentally repeating “his own” formula.

The silence is broken in the congregation with the recitation of the Our Father. It is still not clear how the lines for Communion would be formed.

This is the information we got, and we pass it on. A partial confirmation that these works are in progress comes from an article by Luisella Scrosati in Bussola Quotidiana, in which she presents a stratagem “found” by the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, then headed by Cardinal [Walter] Kasper. This stratagem acknowledged the validity of the Anaphora of Addai and Mari (eucharistic prayer of the Oriental Assyrian Church, aka the Nestorian Church). This is a prayer that does not contain any words of consecration, “except ‘in a dispersed euchological way’, i.e. not in an explicit way (‘This is my Body… This is the chalice of my Blood’), as a [Vatican] document from 2001 says [–link added by N.O.W.]. This could therefore be extremely useful as a justifying principle for a new eucharistic prayer without any words of consecration that could upset the Protestant brethren”. That liturgy was exclusive to the Chaldean Church and the Assyrian Church, in case there were pastoral problems. But just imagine if such a minor detail could turn out to have great significance in the present ecumenical climate. De minimis non curat praetor [“The chief magistrate does not concern himself with trifles”]…

(Marco Tosatti, “Messa Ecumenica, Lavori in Corso? La Consacrazione Imbarazza I Riformati. L’escamotage Del Silenzio…”, Stilum Curiae, Mar. 1, 2017; translation by Novus Ordo Watch.)

For all those who now think, “There is no way this will ever happen!”, we would like to remind you that the man currently in charge of the Vatican II Sect is Jorge Bergoglio; and here is a comprehensive list of all the things you used to believe could never happen, that have since happened.

In light of this well-founded rumor, “Cardinal” Francesco Coccopalmerio’s recent remarks take on even greater significance: The Vatican “cardinal” has suggested that we stop thinking of sacraments so rigidly as only either valid or invalid. For the sake of ecumenism, he opined that we should start looking into sacraments perhaps having “imperfect” or “partial” validity….

You simply can’t make it up, folks.

By the way, regarding that heretical-schismatic “Mass” without a consecration, what Tosatti did not mention in his article is that the Anaphora of Addai and Mari, that consecration-less “Eucharistic prayer”, was confirmed as valid by “Cardinal” Joseph Ratzinger (who was then the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) and “Pope” John Paul II! Don’t you hate it when that happens?!

As the official Vatican document states:

…a long and careful study was undertaken of the Anaphora of Addai and Mari, from a historical, liturgical and theological perspective, at the end of which the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith on January 17th, 2001 concluded that this Anaphora can be considered valid. H.H. Pope John Paul II has approved this decision.

(“Pontifical” Council for Promoting Christian Unity, “Guidelines for Admission to the Eucharist Between the Chaldean Church and the Assyrian Church of the East”, Oct. 25, 2001)

The Vatican II Church is one heck of a joke.

But what do you know: After decades of frowning on the traditional Catholic practice of pronouncing the words of consecration in a low, almost-inaudible voice, the Vatican may just go back to promoting silence at the most important part of the liturgy — except, this time, at the expense of the very words of consecration! Minor detail!

Just wait till they draw the logical conclusion from having an ecumenical liturgy and come up with an interreligious worship service. After all, the groundwork has already been laid: As they freely admit, they do already worship the same god as the Muslims….

37 Responses to “Vatican reportedly working on “Ecumenical Rite of Mass” for joint Worship with Protestants”

  1. White Knight

    I actually can’t wait for them to start imposing interreligious ‘mass’ on priests. It would be that final ‘kick’ needed to wake up a priest I know who is so close to breaking free of the deception. I’ve been hinting to him here and there. This would be the in-your-face evidence I need to open an honest and serious discussion. So please, go for it Jorge!

    • Pedro

      Now, we know that “Chaos Francis” believes in a God of “surprises” so what is to prevent him from “discovering” women deacons and priests?

      • Gisèle A. Demers

        And people in the Novus Ordo Church wants this..­.and the conservatives will still be indifferent …

        *Gisèle A. Demers*

        2017-03-07 7:27 GMT-05:00 Disqus :

    • chippino

      Oh they won’t be missing because the Church of England etc who have women priests deacons & now bishops! They won’t take part in this without all their clergy being allowed to say ‘mass’ So if this does happen old frankie bergollio will get what he wants in one go which is women priests!! I see some are saying this will have a benefit because it will force Catholics who are R&R sspx or conservative Novus ordos to reject this so called ‘pope’ let’s face it the rcc is already split & has been for years it’s just that most Catholics bury their heads in the sand I’m afraid.

  2. John Hixson

    A few more would break away but still 98 % of the spiritually dead dolts would go along. Just don’t mess with their Facebook or Phones. Here comes the one world church and the anti-christ.

    • Pedro

      Ah, yes, in the world of feelings and “Did you see/hear/read what he said!” groupthink, Social Media is God. Thou shalt not have any objective moral truth. If there is any doubt, consult a friend on Zuckerschmuck’s social media to make sure you are within the correct, socially accepted parameters of thought and behavior. DO NOT THINK FOR YOURSELF OR ADHERE TO AN OBJECTIVE MORAL CODE. This is forbidden by the relativists/statists/collectivists.

    • Pascendi

      Why are they going to all the trouble of making a separate ecumenical service? If they’d just admit that the Novus Ordo consecration is invalid they wouldn’t have to waste their time worrying about how to get around the consecration problem.

        • Michael S

          Great idea if you think about it. Evil, but brilliant. Now you can have another splinter within the Novus disOrdo sect… those who hold to the “old mass” and those who push the new one. Just another thing to distract away from sedevacantism, and the true Mass.

  3. ebrown21

    They already have an ecumenical rite of “Mass”. It is called the Novus Ordo Missae. It was never designed specifically for Catholic worship.

  4. Glaucon Aristos

    You know, every week it gets worse and worse. And every week I’m more and more amazed I have kept any sort of faith in the NO church. In that sense it’s funny: I couldn’t understand the sedevacantist position until Pope Francis, and he has single-handedly illustrated how right you all are.

    *sigh* At least the TLM has no part in this circus.

    • Michael S

      Hang in the Glaucon. It gets worse. Sedevacantism is just the fist step in the right direction. There is plenty of error and lack of validity and shenanigans once you wake up to the Truth. Kind of like that ridiculous movie “The Matrix”… the film didn’t end when Neo took the red pill. Thats when the real fun started. Welcome to the “desert of the real”. The great apostasy sucks and it is upon us.

  5. rich

    Quite simply Mr Francis needs to die and a real pope needs to assume the Chair. This is realty…Francis needs to drop dead, God will judge him. This statement is not unmerciful….this statement is fully merciful for the millions of souls who depend on this evil man for Catholic guidance and yet are being led to Hell. We fought crusades for less than what this psycho is doing.

    • Michael S

      It doesn’t matter if he dies. The apostate “cardinals” will simply replace him with another heretic who may be even worse!

  6. Eli Rotello

    The Ordination and Consecration prayers do not need to be the same as they were before for them to effect the sacrament. The forms do not need to be taken from another rite. They can be composed new, so long as they are Ordination and Consecration prayers of some kind, based on the tenet that the words must effect what they signify, and that at the least.

      • Eli Rotello

        That’s not true. A Priest could say, “for this is my divinity, my soul, and my right foot,” and this would be a valid Consecration prayer. The principle, is the words effect what they signify.

          • Eli Rotello

            Regarding the essential form of the Sacraments, questions have been written to Rome, questioning if dubious essential forms have been valid. Answers have been in the affirmative and the negative. The words effect what they signify, in the esssential form of the Sacraments.

  7. Odon Pla

    Being a Novus Ordo conservative coming from theism, I lapsed back twice into theism. Then I realized that it was all too easy to apostatize from the Novus Ordo. So, ten years ago, I made up my mind and I swept out of my mind everything connected with Vatican II.

    After years witnessing the Opus Dei first and then the SSPX falling into doctrinal cinism, reading your articles on the Papacy, I have just realized that I agree with you. I’m just another sedevacantist.

    Bergoglio is both a cause and a consequence of this universal apostasy that we are witnessing. Society at large is fast becoming a cesspool of iniquities.

    A week ago, at the 2017 Las-Palmas-de-Gran-Canaria carnival, in the once proudly Roman Catholic Spain, a drag-queen posed both as Our Lady, and as Christ Crucified (If you look for the video in Youtube, viewer discretion is strongly adviced).

    The main performer (a male whose name is Borja Casillas, a.k.a. Drag Sethlas) is preparing to become teacher of the Novus Ordo religion for children. Although he needs the placet from the local Novus Ordo bishop (mgr. Francisco Cases Andreu) to teach, he seems pretty confident he’s going to get it.

    Thank you for your work.

    • Michael S

      Yikes… disgusting, outrageous and typical…

      Francis Bergoglio is a symptom of the bigger problem which is the apostasy of Vatican II. All the nonsense he pulls can be traced to the errors in these documents.

  8. J Nelson

    With such a mish-mash of valid and invalid ordinations, we should keep in mind: in matters pertaining to the sacraments, what is doubtful should be regarded as invalid.

  9. Pascendi

    Are they playing pat-a-cake in that picture? This must be what now passes for dignity and reverence in the Novus Ordo.

  10. Novus Ordo Watch

    The headline is not incorrect. The difference is that this time around, it’s EXPLICITLY an ecumenical rite of “Mass” MEANT FOR joint worship with Protestants. The Novus Ordo Missae is that de facto but not de jure. Now it’s one step further: They’re doing it openly.

    • ebrown21

      I understand. But the Novus Ordo code of canon law of 1983 permits intercommunion between Catholics and Oriental schismatics. If that is not a de jure ecumenical rite of mass, then what is? But I understand that this is now an in your face promotion of an ecumenical service of worship. People, who do not know (and that is many), need to know that the novus ordo missae is not a Catholic liturgy as it was stripped of specifically Catholic elements as admitted by Annibale Bugnini.

  11. Sonia

    Anglicans might still look wistfully upon the Novus Ordo, mistaking it for Catholic, much like the French look upon the ghosts of their slaughtered Royals, whom they slaughtered. But “other Protestants” see the Roman Catholic Church and the Novus Ordo as abominable. They make no distinction – no matter how many times I explain the distinction and how it is hypocritical to view ‘old world’ Christianity as some sort of falsehood waiting for the turpitudinous Luther or the despotic Calvin to set the sheep and would-be shepherds stir8; they hate True Catholicism and rejoice in the Novus Ordo schism, insisting it to be Catholic, glorying in the abomination of it. Ecumenism is a joke to the thousands of Protestant sects who make up the majority of what the world calls, ‘Christian’; even though the stats count the Novus Ordo as Catholic.
    The Novus Ordo, at fifty odd years old, is already Norma Desmond. As for those who get messed up in her life…

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