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Dear Readers:
You may have noticed that neither our blog nor our Twitter feed have been updated in a few days, and this is simply due to a sudden bout of severe illness that is finally coming to a close. It’s actually a great way to start preparing for Lent!
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I know this is off topic a bit, but can someone give me an authoritative source that condemns Mass as a meal. Would appreciate it.
Gladly! Council of Trent, Session 22, Canon 1: “If any one saith, that in the mass a true and proper sacriflce is not offered to God; or, that to be offered is nothing else but that Christ is given us to eat; let him be anathema.”
http://traditionalcatholic.net/Tradition/Council/Trent/Twenty_Second_Session,_Canons.html
But don’t the modernists justify the NO by calling it both a sacrifice and a meal? Trent say to deny its a sacrifice is a heresy. Is it a heresy to say it is both meal and sacrifice?
They might – it depends on whom you talk to. But keep in mind too that “sacrifice” alone is not enough. Luther himself believed the Mass was a sacrifice, just not a sacrifice of atonement but one of praise and thanksgiving. That much the Modernists admit as well.
The Holy Mass is not a meal per se. It is a Sacrifice, and this Sacrifice must be consumed by the priest. The Holy Mass is a Sacrifice of adoration, propitiation (atonement), thanksgiving, and petition.
I am trying to discuss this with a good NO friend. He does not deny any of the sacrificial nature of the Mass, he just adds that it is a meal too. That just doesn’t sound Catholic to me yet I can’t find a good source that condemns this all inclusive concept of Mass.
Oh, I see. Just ask him to show where in Catholic teaching (before Vatican II, obviously) it is stated that the Catholic Mass is essentially a meal.
He already said something about the Last Supper and since Paul 6 instituted it, that it has to be ok.
He’s begging the question: One of the ways in which we know that Paul VI was false is precisely by what he did to the Holy Mass, so he can’t use Paul VI now as legitimizing the New Mass.
If his ideas about the Last Supper are so spot-on, then it should be easy for him to find a Catholic magisterial source (or theological manual) back him up on that, no?
Its maddening. I just want to pull my hair out at times.
Well, the Last Supper was indeed a supper, and the accidents of bread and wine are retained in the Eucharistic species, and they are eaten; so in a certain sense the impression of the Mass is somewhat meal-like, but we all know that isn’t really the meaning of the thing. Anybody who does not see this simply doesn’t want to see it.
I don’t believe there is anything you can say to your friend that will bring him around. People who engage in this kind of hairsplitting are not looking to be convinced. Your friend thinks he is cleverer than you; he thinks he’s found a “secret” hidden in the theology of the Mass that you with your stodgy, conservative mind can’t comprehend; and this secret opens out upon a vista full of delights that he calls “spiritual,” but which are really just his own vanity and self-seeking. His pride will render him invulnerable to any of your arguments.
There is a tactic that has a small chance of success, if you have the heart to pursue it, and that is to break him down, humiliate him, exploit all his weaknesses until he knows how creaturely and pathetic he is. Then he might finally ask for God. Either that or he will be confirmed in his anger and willfulness, but he was going to hell anyway so it doesn’t matter.
I did manage to find a line out of scripture that had an effect. At the Last Supper, the Eucharist does not begin until AFTER supper. OUTSIDE the meal. “When supper had ended….”
“It’s a meal too–” = Lutheranism.
Give the gift of Fr.Cekada’s seminal treatise: “Work of Human Hands.” Alternatively, the entire book summary, in video increments, is available free on youtube on Father’s channel. The summary alone will respond to your friend’s heretical stance.
Yes. I have been informed that Fr. Cekada is publishing a video on it this week, so I haven’t bothered with it.
Ok! Thank you. We here, in Brazil, are assiduous lectors of your site. God bless!
2017-03-01 9:33 GMT-03:00 Disqus :
Thank you! 🙂
Fr. Cekada has just responded with a powerful refutation of Robert Siscoe’s argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAmqlOfbcb8
Awesome!
2017-03-06 22:15 GMT-03:00 Disqus :