Sounds like sedevacantism…
Pope St. Gregory I on the Church just before the Antichrist: ‘Words of Doctrine are Silent, Miracles Removed’
Cutout of Pope Saint Gregory the Great by Francisco de Goya (1746-1828)
The American author, historian, former White House speechwriter, and scholar Joshua Charles appeared on an episode of Life Site‘s ‘Faith and Reason’ podcast with John-Henry Westen on Mar. 26, 2025, entitled, “End times prophecies [of] the Church fathers revealed”. Charles is a recent convert (2019) who espouses a recognize-and-resist type of traditionalism.
Yesterday, a 5-minute extract from the episode was published on YouTube with the no less intriguing title, “The Antichrist: Warnings from the Early Church”. The segment is very interesting and definitely worth watching:
In this clip, Joshua Charles refers to Pope St. Gregory the Great’s teaching regarding the condition of the Church directly preceding the appearance of the Antichrist. The sainted Vicar of Christ, who was originally known simply as Pope Gregory I (c. 540-604), based this idea on a mystical interpretation of the Old Testament Book of Job. The holy pontiff, who is both a Church Father and a Doctor of the Church, saw in Job a ‘type’ of the Catholic Church, whose life prefigured allegorically what the Mystical Body of Christ would have to suffer before the Lord Jesus returns in glory.
The quotation Charles refers to in the video is the following:
Although with regard to our knowing that want goes before his face [see Job 41:13], there is another point for us to expound in a more melancholy manner. For by the awful course of the secret dispensation, before this Leviathan appears in that accursed man whom he assumes, signs of power are withdrawn from Holy Church. For prophecy is hidden, the grace of healings is taken away, the power of longer abstinence is weakened, the words of doctrine are silent, the prodigies of miracles are removed. And though the heavenly dispensation does not entirely withdraw them, yet it does not manifest them openly and in manifold ways as in former times. And this is so caused by a wonderful dispensation, in order that the Divine mercy and justice may be fulfilled together by one and the same means. For when Holy Church appears as if she were more abject, on the withdrawal of signs of power, both the reward of the good increases, who reverence her for the hope of heavenly things, and not on account of present signs; and the mind of the wicked is the more quickly displayed against her, who neglect to pursue the invisible things which she promises, when they are not constrained by visible signs. When therefore the humility of the faithful is deprived of the manifold manifestation of wonders, by the terrible judgment of the secret dispensation, there is heaped up more abundant mercy for the good, and just anger for the evil, by the same means. Because these signs of power cease, in great measure, in Holy Church, before this Leviathan manifestly and visibly comes, it is now rightly said: Want will go before his face [Job 41:13]. For the riches of miracles are first withdrawn from the faithful, and then that ancient enemy displays himself against them with visible prodigies, in order that as he boasts himself on his wonders, he may be overthrown more mightily and more honourably by the faithful without wonders. For though signs will not be wanting to the faithful in their contest with him, yet his will be so great, that those of our people will seem to be rather few or none at all. But their virtue doubtless becomes mightier than all signs, when it crushes with the heel of inward resolution all his terrible deeds which it beholds. But the malignant enemy displays himself against them with so much the fiercer cruelty, the more he grieves that he is despised even with the brightness of his miracles. He therefore gathers himself together for their destruction, and unites all the reprobate with unanimous cruelty for the death of the faithful; in order that he may put forth his cruelty with so much greater power, in proportion as all the members of his body agree with him in the things he seeks perversely to effect.
(Pope St. Gregory I, Morals on the Book of Job, Vol. III, Book xxxiv, n. 7; italics given; underlining added.)
The “Leviathan” mentioned in the text above is clearly the devil — a label given to him by the prophet Isaias: “In that day the Lord with his hard, and great, and strong sword shall visit leviathan the bar serpent, and leviathan the crooked serpent, and shall slay the whale that is in the sea” (Is 27:1).
Although Mr. Charles believes the above Gregorian description of the state of the Mystical Body of Christ just prior to the arrival of the Antichrist is a good description of the ‘Catholic Church’ of the last six decades, this is far from apparent. Rather, in the opinion of the present writer, the description given by St. Gregory harmonizes quite well with sedevacantism and not so much with the recognize-and-resist position.
Let’s examine this a bit more closely.
St. Gregory I speaks of “signs of power [being] withdrawn from Holy Church” and elaborates: “For prophecy is hidden, the grace of healings is taken away, the power of longer abstinence is weakened, the words of doctrine are silent, the prodigies of miracles are removed.”
Granted, these words are somewhat obscure, and it would be presumptuous to think we can fully understand or make sense of their intended meaning. Two items, however, seems rather clear: “the words of doctrine are silent” and “the prodigies of miracles are removed”. At the same time, the holy author immediately adds that “the heavenly dispensation does not entirely withdraw them, yet it does not manifest them openly and in manifold ways as in former times”.
Is this not precisely the case only if we suppose the sedevacantist position to be correct, which holds that the ‘Popes’ since the death of Pius XII in 1958 have been illegitimate and their official acts of teaching, ruling, and sanctifying of no validity?
If we suppose the Novus Ordo (mainstream present-day ‘Catholic’) position to be correct, can we really say “the words of doctrine are silent” and “the prodigies of miracles are removed” when we know that for the last six decades the Vatican II Church has been pumping out plenty of teaching documents and continually proclaims the canonization of new ‘saints’ and recognizes their alleged ‘miracles’?
If, on the other hand, we suppose the recognize-and-resist (‘semi-traditionalist’) position to be correct, can we say even then that “the words of doctrine are silent”? Not in the least, because even the resisters would agree that the words of doctrine have been flowing in great abundance from the Vatican in the last 65 years. The problem is, rather, that that doctrine is often false, sometimes even heretical or blasphemous; at least ambiguous, confusing, or otherwise scandalous. But error is not silence; it is much worse! As regards miracles, the recognize-and-resisters have a habit of either recognizing Novus Ordo-approved miracles altogether or only selectively so. In either case, it would be incorrect to describe their position as harmonizing with the description that “the prodigies of miracles are removed”.
The caveat that “the heavenly dispensation does not entirely withdraw them, yet it does not manifest them openly and in manifold ways as in former times” does not help the two alternatives to sedevacantism either. It does, however, again support the position that there has been no valid Pope since Pius XII, since the true Faith is still taught, although barely, and no longer in the ‘official’ structures, such as parish churches, basilicas, or cathedrals, but in unofficial churches, in private homes, rented halls, and other makeshift venues.
The explanation the holy Pope Gregory the Great gives for why God permits these terrible trials towards the end of time is easy to follow and makes sense. At the same time, it is both frightening and consoling. It is consoling because it shows God’s provident hand in our distressing times. It is frightening because it shows how powerful the forces of hell will be to deceive the good and how we must beg God constantly for the grace not to fall victim to it:
For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Mt 24:24)
For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, him, 9 Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders, 10 And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying: That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity. (2 Thess 2:7-11)
Wherefore he that thinketh himself to stand, let him take heed lest he fall. (1 Cor 10:12)
Lastly, how does sedevacantism fare with the prophecy that “the prodigies of miracles are removed” during the time before the Antichrist? Quite well, for one of the more popular objections against sedevacantism as of late has been that it has no miracles. Please see our powerful response to that point of criticism here:
We will end by pointing out that it appears that in the Catholic teaching on the end times, as well as in approved private revelation, nowhere do we ever find the scenario envisioned by recognize-and-resist traditionalism; namely, that the Pope goes astray, defects from the Faith, poisons the faithful with a false and dangerous magisterium, etc., all the while a few self-proclaimed ‘orthodox Catholics’ rise up to fight against the Holy See until at some point in the future a different Pope agrees to withdraw all the errors and condemn what a short time before the same authority had required the faithful to accept.
Is it rash to say we don’t find such things in Catholic teaching or prophecy? No, because if we did, the recognize-and-resist apologists would surely be quoting those sources day in and day out in support of their position.
Rather, what we find is the very opposite. Not only does the Catholic teaching on the Papacy leave absolutely no room for a papal defection from the Faith, it positively excludes it. Approved private revelation, too, is incompatible with the idea of a heretical Pope or heretical Church. For instance, in the so-called ‘Second Secret of Fatima’, we are told that “the Holy Father will have much to suffer”, not that he will cause much suffering (see Rev. Joseph Cacella, Our Lady of Fatima, 2nd ed. [New York, NY: Vatican City Religious Book Co., Inc., 1946], p. 65).
In the persecution of the Mystical Body of Christ, the Pope is always the victim, never the perpetrator. This only stands to reason since as Christ’s Vicar the Roman Pontiff represents Jesus Christ on earth. Thus, historically the Pope has been the prime target of the Church’s enemies, not their servant.
In an encyclical letter issued in 1853, Pope Pius IX (r. 1846-1878) presented these very truths: that the Roman See is indefectible and that the Pope, more than anyone, is the target of the Church’s greatest enemies:
This chair [of Peter] is the center of Catholic truth and unity, that is, the head, mother, and teacher of all the Churches to which all honor and obedience must be offered. Every church must agree with it because of its greater preeminence — that is, those people who are in all respects faithful…. Now you know well that the most deadly foes of the Catholic religion have always waged a fierce war, but without success, against this Chair; they are by no means ignorant of the fact that religion itself can never totter and fall while this Chair remains intact, the Chair which rests on the rock which the proud gates of hell cannot overthrow and in which there is the whole and perfect solidity of the Christian religion. Therefore, because of your special faith in the Church and special piety toward the same Chair of Peter, We exhort you to direct your constant efforts so that the faithful people of France may avoid the crafty deceptions and errors of these plotters and develop a more filial affection and obedience to this Apostolic See. Be vigilant in act and word, so that the faithful may grow in love for this Holy See, venerate it, and accept it with complete obedience; they should execute whatever the See itself teaches, determines, and decrees.
(Pope Pius IX, Encyclical Inter Multiplices, nn. 1, 7)
In other words, it is precisely because the Papacy guarantees the strength of the Catholic Church that anti-Christian forces have long had such a great interest in eliminating (or at least neutralizing) this infallible and indefectible office.
The following is a list of links to related articles for those who are interested in more information:
- The End of the World and the Antichrist
- The End of the World vs. End Times Mania
- The Persecution and ‘Death’ of the Church: The Testimony of Scripture and Tradition
- The Mystical Passion of the Church: Dreadful Reality vs. Delusive Counterfeit
- The True and the False Passion of the Church
- Sedevacantism and the Mystery of the Church’s Passion
- On that “Passion of the Church” Argument
- The Papacy and the Passion of the Church
- Sedevacantism and Calvary
- What will make the Antichrist so Deceptive?
- ‘Rome will be without a Shepherd’: Virgin Mary to Abbess Maria Steiner in 1840s
- Curial Prelate Warns in 1872: Freemasonic Conspiracy Will Shake Church to Its Foundations
- Not Just Wicked Shepherds but a Heretical Church: A Sedevacantist Reply to Joshua Charles
May Our Lady of Fatima intercede for us, and may God have mercy on us!
Pope St. Gregory the Great, pray for us.
Image source: Wikimedia Commons (cropped)
License: public domain
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